additives in the top up system

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Neil H, 7 May 2009.

  1. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Hi Hennie,

    I am toying with the option of dosing iodene together with Kalk through my Auto top up unit.

    Currently I dose slacked lime into the RO resivoir, this delivers in the order of 9L RO water a day into my Sump, and while i have not monitered it too closely from a measurment standpoint, my coraline and LPS have gone Mad since i started the dosing... There is never any settlement out of solution of the slacked lime, so if anything i will be increasing the dosage.

    I like this method for a number of reasons chief amongst them is the slow and regular delivery of a "consumable" to the ecosystem.

    I have been dosing Iodene for a while now and believe that if anything i am severly underdosing it..... My question thus is would adding Iodene to the RO top up not be better for the system since it delivers the dosage at a more constant rate?

    Is there a reaction between iodene and kalk or any other additive i may want to add this way that i should be concerned about?

    Is there a time decay of iodene in the water column that i must worry about?

    Thanks

    N
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Are you using slaked lime, as in what you can buy from the pharmacy?
    How much per 9L do you add?
    Is there not other impurities in there?

    I would rather drip the Iodene, for incase it reacts somehow. Then you will have a constant add rate.
     
  4. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Neil sorry to hijack.
    Hennie, whilst on the same topic. If I add in epsom salts to my Top up to dose MG, will it be fine or will the high Ph precipitate the MG?
    Thanks in advance :)
     
  5. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @Riaan I have a 50L top up resivour.... my research indicates that if one doses the clear water (ie.... mix as much slacked lime as you want with x amount of water, leave the water to stand, the excess slacked lime will not go into solution.... then dose the clear water.... if you follow this you can not over dose) ....... I use a slurry into the 50L RO tank.... this disolves and there is no precipitate, ie not saturated .... i eye ball it at the moment.

    @ Meks.... that is the second part of the question i was going to post so not a hijack

    i want to know if we can dose any additives through the top up ... or do we have to worry about reactions ???
     
  6. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    tagging along
     
  7. riyadhessa

    riyadhessa

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    Brilliant question so me tagging toooooo
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I understand better now.
    So if the slaked lime excess settle in the bottom of the reservior, you never suck that up, and only what could have dissolved in the first place are used. Clever and logical.

    Just one question still stands. Do you use slaked lime as you get from the pharmacies? in Afrikaans "Gebluste Kalk"
     
  9. Tony

    Tony

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    I personally wouldn't add supplements to an ATO as one cannot control the rate of evaporation and one may end up under or overdosing things. Rather manaully dose or use dosing pumps
     
  10. seank

    seank

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    Just be careful if you running it inside a kalkwasser, as it "clogs" up your pump if you do not wash out the pump every couple of weeks. Mine got clogged up, and burned out
     
  11. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    This is complicated... short answer: No, rather dose it separately - in fact, never mix anything with kalkwasser.

    There is still an open debate on whether the dosing of iodine is beneficial or not, and I'm of the opinion that it is not really necessary. The chemistry of iodine (and the other halides, such as bromide) in sea-water is quite complex, and they are pretty lethal in even small over-doses. The "pure" element is also pretty useless in terms of biological activity - out organisms actually require iodide, not iodine, and the iodine must be converted to iodide (and later to iodate - the same as ammonium's nitrogen is converted to nitrite, and then nitrate...). Because of the complexity of the chemical reactions (one of the reactions actually require an acidic state...) and the fact that we do not know exactly what reactions could occur if mixed in a highly alkaline solution such as lime water, it is safer IMHO to just keep the additions separate.

    Here is a somewhat technical extract from an article published by Dr. Craig Bingman in the old Aquarium Frontiers e-zine, elaborating on the chemical reactions...

    The following two articles Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley also make good reading - in the second article he suggests that the normal feeding of our fish actually supplies enough iodine to the system, and that supplementation is unnecessary.

    Chemistry and the Aquarium

    Chemistry and the Aquarium

    Good advice, Tony another reason why they should not be mixed :thumbup:

    On a different tangent: adding kalk through an auto top-up is rather risky. We've had two disasters reported here on MASA during the past month or so where an auto-topup unit "dumped" a large volume of highly alkaline kalk water into the tank, and in both cases most of the livestock were killed by it. I honestly believe that the only safe way of adding lime water to our tanks is by slowly dripping it into the sump.

    Hennie
     
  12. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Can you do this, say once a week, or do you need kalk dripping 24/7. Keeping in mind I have to dose kalk due to the low pH effect of a CaRX.
     
  13. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    That's the nice thing about dripping Kalk - you can add it 24/7 :thumbup: - I've been doing this for many years now for this same reason, and it works very well. I use a rather large (approx 50 liters) container above the tank. this is connected to my RO through a ball valve, and I add about half a packet (250g) of slaked lime powder once per week. So, even though the system is pretty safe due to the manually set drip rate, it still works as an "auto-topup" of sorts. I also have a float valve in the sump return pump chamber, and this opens perhaps every second day to "equalize" the RO addition, as the Kalk drip rate is just slightly slower than the evaporation rate of the system (which is pretty constant, only requiring an adjustment to the Kalk drip rate every month or so...).

    Hennie
     
  14. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Thank You for the feedback Hennie,

    I am however a little confused ....

    you run a lime solution in a drum with a drip rate which is close to the evap rate as possible?

    I run a lime solution in my ro resivour with a pump and float switch ....

    the essential difference in my mind is the delivery mechanism, the way i understand it you do not have a super saturated lime solution...., all the slacked lime is disolved?

    Are you saying that the safety of should i say benefit of the way you dose is the fail safe nature of the dripping?

    In terms of other additives suck as Epsom Salts for MG, can one dose this in a strong solution through a drip?
     
  15. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Yes

    No, I have a large excess of undissolved lime powder on the Sunday, when I add the powder. During the week, the the liquid is replenished with RO water, and the excess lime dissolves to keep the solution saturated. By the end of the week (or sometimes only the end of the next week when I'm too busy to add fresh lime powder...) the solution might not be saturated any more, but it still contains some calcium, and the pH is still quite high, so even when it's not saturated any more it is still keeping the pH of the tank water at a healthy +8.0, and adding *some* calcium and alkalinity to the tank.

    Correct. Even if a skimmer "runs away", or there is a leak in the system, the dripping lime whon't increase, as would be the case when an "auto topup" (containing lime) tries to keep the sump full. Thus, even though the water level in the sump or tank would drop, the tank won't be over-dosed with kalk.

    Yes, one could dose it this way - through a separate drip. Theoretically, it would be better to have all additions made through slow dripping, as this would lead to a more stable environment, but these additives are not nearly as lethal in an overdose as the kalk would be. Also, the quantities normally required can be safely added in two or three large additions without seriously affecting the other water parameters, so I just add the dosages into a high flow area (the weir overflow going down into the sump).

    Hennie
     
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    My question is still open

    Do you use slaked lime as you get from the pharmacies? in Afrikaans "Gebluste Kalk"
     
  17. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    yes u can
     
  18. seank

    seank

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    Yip
     
  19. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Yes, that's exactly what I use.
     
  20. Andreas

    Andreas

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    Great read:)

    My RO reservoir has dumped all of 25l to my display on a couple of occasions :whistling: and I haven't seen any ill effects to my life stock.I'm not saying that they're having a party in there but I honestly didn't see them in any distress at all.
     
  21. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Would that be 25 liters of RO water, or 25 liters of Kalkwasser? Oh, and what size system?

    Hennie
     
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