2 Meter Shallow Reef

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Jaco Schoeman, 10 Feb 2010.

  1. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman MASA Contributor

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    Hi Gents

    I am busy planning a 2m shallow reef tank, that I'd like to start getting together and run by end of the year. This is what I have in mind, and please add your thoughts. I need all the advice I can get. ;)

    Tank dimensions:

    2000(l) x 300(w) x 500(h)

    Flow:
    Flow will be accomplished by a Tunze Nano Wave Box. The water level will only be 300 - 350mm to allow for the wave.

    Filtration:
    Overflow will be via a hole in the middle of the tank, from where it will run into a 1.5m sump area.

    My plan is to have only a little live rock in the tank, and not make it too crowdy. I will have extra LR in the sump for additional filtration though.

    Coral List:
    LPS and Softies

    Fish List:
    Tangs (regal and yellow) Perc's, cardinals, firefish, chromis - that type of thing, nothing too exotic.;)

    Lighting will be MH.

    What do you think, will a narrow shallow tank with a wavebox work or not?
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i feel waveboxes are unatural, having dived plenty reefs, water flow is not like that in the square tank, but thats my opinion, i feel they a waste of money.

    more natural option is to have flow over the reef, then change 30min or so later, and flow thru the reef via a cls etc
     
  4. Ridwaan

    Ridwaan

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    Sounds good, but if it were me, I would go 800mm or even 1meter wide...
     
  5. Singularity

    Singularity Hmmm amper!

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    yeah 300 is very narrow !
     
  6. Johan van Aardt

    Johan van Aardt I love marines [R.I.P.]

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    What about a wavebox on either side, and let them go off on diffrent intervals? But then again make it abit wider man, thats very difficoult to scape maybe even only double double that?
     
  7. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Dallas, please elaborate on this. My personal issue with waveboxes, are two things:

    1) I have not really seen waves that "short" in the ocean. That is why my feeling is to have the tank longer, rather than wider.

    2) They just seem to keep stuff in suspension, without really taking them anywhere, like a lunar type of feel.

    What I do like about them is the wave motion they make... But please give me your thoughts Dallas, would you suggest powerheads on both sides, varying in motion etc via a Tunze controller or similar?
     
  8. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i would suggest power heads, i use 4 sunsun's on a timer, 2 on each side, with 2 on one side on and then one on the other, then every hour it swops, 2 on the other side and one on the other. i also have 2 pumps blowing thru a stand to keep the water flow thru the reef. after 10-15m deep waves dont have much effect on a reef, its the surge and laminar flow thru and over that work, sometimes changing direction.
     
  9. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Thanks man. That makes a lot of sense. I also feel that type of flow might be better. I really like the to and fro movement made by waves (hence the wavebox) but I agree with you, powerheads might be better.

    How long does your sunsuns last when you switch them on and off like that?
     
  10. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    had them for about 9 months
     
  11. Quintus

    Quintus the irish aXeman

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    isn't MH only a bit of overkill?
     
  12. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Noisy when starting up?

    Nice thing bout them is they are so cheap, they can be replaced once a year etc. ;)
     
  13. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    I agree on the width Jaco, 300 is way too narrow. Make it 600 at least, but 800 to 1000 is better :)
     
  14. brandonb

    brandonb

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    Looking forward to this!!!

    Yeah I also agree 300 is gonna be super narrow (same as a rulers length???)

    Brandon
     
  15. scubaninja

    scubaninja

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    Dallas, Waveboxes not natural? i think you should rethink that. Having a wavebox is as natural as you get. Of course the time interval for the wave will be much less than the ocean, which is obvious as none of us have a tank as big as the ocean. The flow you are suggesting is not natural, its more laminar even though there would be some chaotic flow. The ocean pulls back and forth, so if something we are trying recreate as the 'sea' doesnt then its not natural.

    Jaco 300 is way to narrow, sheesh you'd put the rocks in and there'd no space for anything else. if you want to spend the money on a wavebox, go for it, but you cant have it as the only flow. you still need flow to get things over the overflow cause as you said it only keeps the things in suspension. So i would suggest, a wavebox if you can, and 4 'big' flow pumps. one on each corner, the left pointing horizontally to the right and the right pointing right back at them. Thats the simplest way which still gets you what you want, by big pumps i mean 4 x something like a Seio M2600 or an equivalent. I know alan ran his tank one 4 M2600s very successfully as you guys should already know. PM me if you want any other help i can offer as i'm not online much these days
     
  16. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    thats why i said its my opinion, and having dived in all sorts of conditions, the wave motion is laminar, not "to and fro" but each to their own
     
  17. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    :lol:

    Scubaninja,

    First of let me say what i am about to say is in my opinion and through my experience.

    I can not think of many things in the marine trade as un-natural as a wave box, it is in my opinion nothing more than a gimmic, let me go on to explain what I base this on.

    You quite correctly elude to waves being natural, HOWEVER, waves are the end result of a process including but not limited to temperature differences, ocean depth, wind direction, fetch etc. the waves are a result of these and other factors. They are thus IMO inconsequential in “Creating a current”, so why would we think creating waves is the same as creating a current…. It is NOT.

    Secondly let us for a moment look at Scale and movement as well as random movement. One may correctly argue that the 5cm odd wave in your tank emulates lets say a 2m wave on a reef ….. right ….. and thus based on the scaling down of the wave, you have correctly copied nature ….. right …… WORNG, your corals are in proportion MUCH bigger, you have thus created a very un-natural movement for your corals, not the natural one you strive for. Lets talk about random movement for a while…. Look at those waves a wave maker makes, there is nothing random about them, they all have the same wavelength which is based on the wave box controls. How then does this create random flow…..? short answer is that it doesn’t. Look at Hennie Landmans video for a great explanation of random flow…… a wave box could never create this sort of flow regime.

    I don’t mean to sound aggressive here but I feel very strongly about these IMO technical gizmo’s that achieve very little other that a visually impressive “wave”. I have been privileged to travel and dive around the world, from Florida USA, to Perth, to the Great Barrier Reef, to Thailand, the red sea, Mozambique and south Africa and not once have I ever experienced something remotely like what a wave maker creates in a tank… not once. The most natural movement is IMO exactly as Dallas stated (who I believe has also dived extensively and understands these conditions), with flow moving from one side to the other side in pulses somewhere between 15 and 30 seconds, of course additional complexities such as low movement to simulate tidal changes etc etc can ONLY benefit a system …..

    Before it is thrown in my face, YES there are a number of systems out there who successfully use wave makers, I think this was best explained by JacquesB when he told me that corals are adaptable beyond our wildest beliefs, just because there are systems out there that use wave makers does not make them ideal, neither does the presence waves indicate you have achieved a natural state……


    oh and the last time i saw a wave box tank in person all it did for me was make me dizzy and want to vomit :razz:
     
  18. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    well said, i agree 100%
     
  19. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Thanks Neil, I agree with you and Dallas - I like random flow from different directions more than a wave box. What I don't like about a wave box is the fish look like they see-saw and that is not natural.
    From all the underwater videos I've seen on National Geo channel, etc, not once did the fish rock back and forth like in the wave box videos.
    In my opinion it looks gagga ;)
     
  20. Singularity

    Singularity Hmmm amper!

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    And that is exactly why i like wave makers, isnt the point of keeping a marine tank to be visually impressive above all else ?
     
  21. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    if achieving a wave is what you want to achieve then obviously a wave maker does this remarkedy well ;), however my post was really not referring to this aspect of the wave maker, it was referring to the contention that a wave maker is a natural state of affairs for our tanks....
     
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