2 clowns - 2days.Help!

Discussion in 'Marine Fish Discussions' started by H0nda42, 23 Jul 2008.

  1. H0nda42

    H0nda42

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    Hi all, my two oscelaris clowns have died rather suddenly.
    first one yesterday pm and the other this morning.
    They were a little on the thin side and not eating alot. I was given frozen mix and Tetra freshwater granules for feeding from LFS.
    Both clowns were very small and did not eat the granules,but did get a little of the frozen in.
    They're difficult to feed as the food hits bottom before they get it, after which they leave it.
    I did syphon detritus off the bottom on Sun and did 20% water change due to this.
    Tank is new - 3 weeks. But have no problems to date and the Maroon clown and cleaner schrimps are fine.
    Running a Tetra 700l/h cannister and also built-in filter.
    Been taking water samples through to LFS and tests came back as fine (not sure which tests were done).
    The clowns were acting strange in that they were swimming vertically and breathing quickly and heavily.
    There were no signs of any disease on their skins.
    Last night I tried to feed again and the oscelaris would not eat at all, swam through the food. Maroon still feeding fine.This morning dead.

    The Maroon was not looking good this morning and appears to be breathing heavily as well.
    What do I do?
    Any suggestions?
    Called LFS and they said to treat for odenium.
     
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  3. Al

    Al

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    Hi Honda42,

    It could be that your tank hasnt cycled yet. It takes 4 to 6 weeks to cycle. Maybe the experts will give you advice. What are the water parameter's?
     
  4. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hello Honda - sorry to hear about this. Never nice to loose fish. Even though this unfortunately happens far too often.

    OK - a few questions:
    1) how old are the fish?
    2) what size is your tank again?
    3) do you have a skimmer at all?
    4) how often do you feed the fish?
    5) how often do you replace/clean the filtration media in the built-in filter and canister filter?
    6) can you please find out what your LFS tested regarding water parameters?
    7) what's the water temp?
    8) do you have a hydrometer or refractometer (to test the salinity / SG of the water)?

    We need to know the water parameters, and can unfortunately not go by the LFS's word, that "it is fine". Would you please try and find this out?

    How long do you keep you tank lights on?

    Please find supply as much of this info as possible, as quick as possible, that we can assist you in getting to the root of the problems you are having.

    Many thanks.
     
  5. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Hi Al, yes it could be. The LFS who set up the tank told me it was fine to introduce fish. Some LFS say wait; then one other blasted me who said tank won't mature without fish.
    Conflicting reports.
    Been taking regular tests through to LFS. Am going past at 14:00 as I need to get some medicine and will get water parameters then. What do I need to ask for?
    Also want to show them the clown body - (maybe they can see something I missed).
    I also put in phosphate remover last night (rinsed it properly 1st).
     
  6. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Honda - get Myxazin - any other medication might most likely kill your life stock. It is always good to have some Myxazin around. BUT - please come here and ask questions first. We have ALL gone through the process of getting bad advice from LFS's. You should learn not to trust the LFS first off....

    Unless the LFS can show you a tank that they have maintained and kept life stock alive for at least 2 years without problems. Then you can take their word for it..... :)

    Please get us the information, and then we can make some intelligent suggestions.
     
  7. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Hello Honda - sorry to hear about this. Never nice to loose fish. Even though this unfortunately happens far too often.

    OK - a few questions:
    1) how old are the fish? - Not entirely sure, but are very small so presumably still young
    2) what size is your tank again? 180l
    3) do you have a skimmer at all? No-was advised that on a 180l it's fine if I do regular water changes. Am considering one.
    4) how often do you feed the fish? Once a day. The two smaller ones did not feed heavily. They would swallow then spit it out. Only went for the very fine particles.
    5) how often do you replace/clean the filtration media in the built-in filter and canister filter? It's only been running 3 weeks. of which I cleaned the built-in filter and floss (rinsed them in the syphoned tank water
    6) can you please find out what your LFS tested regarding water parameters? I will ask them today for all water parameters.
    7) what's the water temp? 26 deg
    8) do you have a hydrometer or refractometer (to test the salinity / SG of the water)?
    I have a hydrometer and it has been fine. It has dipped to 1023 from 1024 since Sun.
    Been using R/O water from LFS, mixed with salt at the store too.
    We need to know the water parameters, and can unfortunately not go by the LFS's word, that "it is fine". Would you please try and find this out?
    Will get this info shortly.

    How long do you keep you tank lights on? So far from 16:30 til 21:30 or 22:00

    Please find supply as much of this info as possible, as quick as possible, that we can assist you in getting to the root of the problems you are having.
    I appreciate your help and will get this ASAP.
    THanks,
    Many thanks.[/quote]
     
  8. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Honda - get Myxazin - any other medication might most likely kill your life stock. It is always good to have some Myxazin around. BUT - please come here and ask questions first. We have ALL gone through the process of getting bad advice from LFS's. You should learn not to trust the LFS first off....

    Unless the LFS can show you a tank that they have maintained and kept life stock alive for at least 2 years without problems. Then you can take their word for it..... :)

    Please get us the information, and then we can make some intelligent suggestions.

    Hi Jacque,
    Will get the Myxazin. I would prefer to get a test kit as well today so I can know water parameters always.
    It seems my LFS hasn't been giving me the best advice as surely freshwater food is not the best for marine.
    Regarding tank - the LFS has a big Juwel (looks like 350l) running exactly the same setup as mine (i.e. cannister filter and built-in as well) and has corals and fish running smoothly.
    I was actually going in today to reserve fish on a shipment that is arriving this afternoon:( so am disappointed as I won't be able to stock some new fish.
    However, must admit to being gutted when these two clowns died.
     
  9. Al

    Al

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    Ask them for the water paramter's mentioned below. Why dont you buy yourself test kit's?

    Salinity, PH, KH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphates. I still check my water twice a week so i know exactly where i stand.
     
  10. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Ask them for the water paramter's mentioned below. Why dont you buy yourself test kit's?

    Salinity, PH, KH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphates. I still check my water twice a week so i know exactly where i stand.[/quote]

    Hi Al, I was told not to worry as they will test for me free of charge, if I bring in a sample.
    I don't think they were doing the full test though. Am new to this.
    Can anyone recommend a good test kit and approximate price?
     
  11. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Honda - hhhmm- I know the trick some LFS have - they regularly recreate the marine tanks, after the lifestock either died or have been sold.

    There could be a LOT of reasons for your fish dying, of which some reasons might be that the clowns where wild-caught and caught by using toxic chemicals (yes - this is indeed done). It could also just be that your ammonia levels are still too high. You have 3 fish already, in a 120 litre tank (a nano) which has not cycled properly yet.

    I don't want to tell you just to go out and buy things. Believe me - I have been there - done that. Spent one hell of a lot of money on crap that was not necessary.

    A test-kit is indeed a necessity. Or multiple test-kits even.
    This is what you need to test:
    - ammonia
    - nitrite
    - nitrates
    The ammonia/nitrite test kits you will most likely only ever use once or a very short while in the beginning. The nitrate test kit will be used forever ;-)

    Also - I said that you can get Myxazin - but will not cure problems with high ammonia/nitrites, of if the fish have been doomed to start with (ie. caught with toxic chemicals, etc...)..

    So - yes- IF you want to, get some Myxazin. BUT, don't see it as a MUST.

    Ratger get the test-kit/s and test the water parameters yourself.

    I agree - fish food made for fresh water fish is not the best thing to do.

    Let us take this step-by-step, see what you water parameters are, and then we can guide you in doing the "right thing" ;-)

    Good luck mate!
     
  12. Al

    Al

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    I use the Sera Test kit, some guy's reckon its not that accurate but seem to find it ok. I think the Whole Sera Kit that comes in a brief case costs around R700. I bought mine seperatetly. Costs a bout R90 - R170-00 each.

    Buy the essential ones first if your buy individually.
     
  13. Raven

    Raven

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    Hi dude - stay away from Sera Test kits,- i've used this before, and it's not accurate at all!
    There is a reason why it's so cheap.
    Rather spend the money on something proper - like tropic marine. Yes i know it's alot of money. But I would rather spend the money on something proper and know that my readings are accurate.

    I whish one could expose some of these LFS that's giving this bad advice!!!
    I've made the same mistake before to believe every word they tell me - and i've lost alot of money because of it.

    Another piece of advice from me - Be patient, don't rush things (all good things are worth waiting for;) )
    Someone once told me that anything that happens fast in a marine tank is bad - and this is so true!
     
  14. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I would defniatley invest in my own Test kit.Tropic Marin is an excellent and reputable brand. For around R700 you can pick up the Pro test kit ie Ph,Amonia,Nitrite,Nitrate and Alkalinity.
     
  15. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Hi Jacque, I am hoping that it was due to my fish being caught with poison. It could also be the nitrite/Ammonia thing. Food on the floor could also have contributed (although I did syphon and water change on Sat)
    But would hate to think it's because tank is not ready or PH/nitrite levels are high.
    Also would adding more liverock now help with the filtering?
    Have been waiting on a shipment to come in.
    BTW - it's a 180 l tank, so hopefully out of the nano category and should be a little more stable.
     
  16. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Also before getting too worried, I also have a strong suspicion that it could be hollow belly, as the two small clowns were not eating well or alot.
    Going home to fetch the water sample and dead clown and then off to LFS to id any disease on it as well as pick up something to help the rest of the inhabitants.
    Will see how the Maroon is doing.
     
  17. Storm

    Storm

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    Honda42, Im not gonna post anything to confuse u like the LFS. But I think u stocked your tank a little bit to much to quickly... I was exactly like you, not knowing wtf is cooking as everyone has diverse oppinions. The best advise I can offer is start reading here on MASA and Googling when your not sure, it helps alot.
     
  18. Al

    Al

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    The Live Rock will help but it will go through a cycle again if you put in Uncured Live Rock.
     
  19. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Thanks Storm - maybe a blessing as I was going to go really big today on a shipment from USA. I really wanted to fill it up, so perhaps I have saved some money.
    I ran a marine tank many years ago in EL but it had a sump and it was very stable.
    Failure is a learning curve - so will keep asking ques and will be in touch
     
  20. H0nda42

    H0nda42 Thread Starter

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    Hey Al, in order to cook the LR, don't you have to boil it? Surely this will kill the inhabitants?
     
  21. Storm

    Storm

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    Why not startup a thread with all your tank hardware, water parameters and livestock in "Member Setups", then u can use that thread as your base for your tank, asking questions and getting back helpfull replies. Oh and photos are a must there :razz: Just read a few threads there to see how people layout there tanks info.
     
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