Simple is Better
- Thread starter keyaam
- Start date
Lets ask another question, does Dorry/Mantis/Eel (or any other species for that matter) know the difference if you have a touch screen to control your entire system with parameter analysis software down to the micron and all the latest and greatest auto-dosing equipment, or if you run a simpler is better fitration system with the simply key equipment???
They sure as heck know all about it when on of those major control components go down and they are suffering for a few days whilst it is fixed or replaced - in a simpler system, it is never long to repair and or replace key equipment should it fail and they dont even notice it...
They sure as heck know all about it when on of those major control components go down and they are suffering for a few days whilst it is fixed or replaced - in a simpler system, it is never long to repair and or replace key equipment should it fail and they dont even notice it...
i agree with you aslam, indeed id say that most of the top class systems ive seen are automated to a degree or so. that has a number reasons to it, in my view, but the primary one is stability. often automated systems with accurate and easy assestments of the water parameters allows reefers to 1 know exactly whats happening in the tank and 2 allows for small adjustments to be done. that stability means better water quality and thus those mantis/eel/ sps collonies clams etc etc etc do actually benifit greatly from automation if its done properly.
also ive noticed a number of the automated tanks ive been lucky to see have very slow and deliberate reefers behind them, the automation allowing a sence of sustainability and the associated growth that happens when water quality is firstly good and secondly stable.
so while i agree that you can achieve a huge amount with good husbandry and a lower budget, the best tanks ive personally seen around the world are automated with a steady reefer behind it.
also ive noticed a number of the automated tanks ive been lucky to see have very slow and deliberate reefers behind them, the automation allowing a sence of sustainability and the associated growth that happens when water quality is firstly good and secondly stable.
so while i agree that you can achieve a huge amount with good husbandry and a lower budget, the best tanks ive personally seen around the world are automated with a steady reefer behind it.
Ahh-haa, but hang on there - are you talking about completely automated, or only specifically monitored with precision equipment?
I can also get fancy gear which monitors my system, the system in it's entriety still remains a simplistic setup. If I had the monitoring system in place, I would still be doing the manual work in dosing and filtration methodologhy, only that I would always be right on the mark in that the "system" will be telling me exactly what dosing is required because of up to the minute monitoring - which I can be pretty sure is not the case with most reefers.
After saying that though:
I understand 100% what you are saying about the better tanks being on automated systems, however, many of the systems you speak of - are they regular people or are they people with abnormal financial assistance? The average Joe, non-company owner - just regular income earner, could not afford such sophisticated systems without the aid of an additional or supplimented income - or without an above average salary really speaking.
So for the "average Joe", simpler may very well be better.
For those with very deep pockets, hi-tech may be better.
Which is ACTUALLY better, is dependant on the size of the pocket now isn't it?
I can also get fancy gear which monitors my system, the system in it's entriety still remains a simplistic setup. If I had the monitoring system in place, I would still be doing the manual work in dosing and filtration methodologhy, only that I would always be right on the mark in that the "system" will be telling me exactly what dosing is required because of up to the minute monitoring - which I can be pretty sure is not the case with most reefers.
After saying that though:
I understand 100% what you are saying about the better tanks being on automated systems, however, many of the systems you speak of - are they regular people or are they people with abnormal financial assistance? The average Joe, non-company owner - just regular income earner, could not afford such sophisticated systems without the aid of an additional or supplimented income - or without an above average salary really speaking.
So for the "average Joe", simpler may very well be better.
For those with very deep pockets, hi-tech may be better.
Which is ACTUALLY better, is dependant on the size of the pocket now isn't it?
Ahh-haa, but hang on there - are you talking about completely automated, or only specifically monitored with precision equipment?
I can also get fancy gear which monitors my system, the system in it's entriety still remains a simplistic setup. If I had the monitoring system in place, I would still be doing the manual work in dosing and filtration methodologhy, only that I would always be right on the mark in that the "system" will be telling me exactly what dosing is required because of up to the minute monitoring - which I can be pretty sure is not the case with most reefers.
After saying that though:
I understand 100% what you are saying about the better tanks being on automated systems, however, many of the systems you speak of - are they regular people or are they people with abnormal financial assistance? The average Joe, non-company owner - just regular income earner, could not afford such sophisticated systems without the aid of an additional or supplimented income - or without an above average salary really speaking.
So for the "average Joe", simpler may very well be better.
For those with very deep pockets, hi-tech may be better.
Which is ACTUALLY better, is dependant on the size of the pocket now isn't it?
agreed
Very interesting discussion. I have always been of the opinion that we need to keep our hobbys within our budgets. Do and buy what you can afford. With marines I have found that (my opinion) intially spend as much of your allocated budget on filtration and monitoring. Later spend mony on fish etc.
The most important thing is "the fool behind the tools". It does not matter how complicated and expensive the system or how simple the system is the most impotant thing would be passion for you are doing. If you love it nothing else matters.
The most important thing is "the fool behind the tools". It does not matter how complicated and expensive the system or how simple the system is the most impotant thing would be passion for you are doing. If you love it nothing else matters.
leslie hempel
Professional Aquarist
Agreed with manta. A passionate and enthusiastic reefer will often make up in effort what they lack in finance.
While i like the simple is better idea, there is another IMO more Important factor and that is understanding
Understanding of
water chemistry
species interaction
filtration
flow
etc
it is nice to say that simple is better, but simple is in direct correlation to ones understanding of a reef system process, if one researches and understands lets say the zeo method, it may be simple to that individual similarly someone may argue that using a nitrate reactor is the simplest thing around ..... yet ask the average SA reefer what the zeo method involves and they will give you a blank stare....
I dont like black box solutions.... i.e. polluted water goes in and clean water magically comes out..... if that is what is referred to as complicated then i am in agreement (and yes such systems do exist) that simple is better...
If we break down the components of a reef and understand them as best we can then anything can be made "simple"..... make no mistake while a DSB and macro algae may appear a simple solution, the processes that take here are just as complex as in the zeo system or nitrate reactor.
An example of this simple is better with understanding is an ATS, they are wonderful are removing nutrients BUT they also strip out some good things, if i remember one of the threads correctly the strip out iodene and trace elements as well..... if you dont understand this and compensate for it .... the result is obvious
ok i have waffled on enough !
Understanding of
water chemistry
species interaction
filtration
flow
etc
it is nice to say that simple is better, but simple is in direct correlation to ones understanding of a reef system process, if one researches and understands lets say the zeo method, it may be simple to that individual similarly someone may argue that using a nitrate reactor is the simplest thing around ..... yet ask the average SA reefer what the zeo method involves and they will give you a blank stare....
I dont like black box solutions.... i.e. polluted water goes in and clean water magically comes out..... if that is what is referred to as complicated then i am in agreement (and yes such systems do exist) that simple is better...
If we break down the components of a reef and understand them as best we can then anything can be made "simple"..... make no mistake while a DSB and macro algae may appear a simple solution, the processes that take here are just as complex as in the zeo system or nitrate reactor.
An example of this simple is better with understanding is an ATS, they are wonderful are removing nutrients BUT they also strip out some good things, if i remember one of the threads correctly the strip out iodene and trace elements as well..... if you dont understand this and compensate for it .... the result is obvious
ok i have waffled on enough !
Interesting thread.
Mekaeel
Moderator
This method really works Keyaam. My growth over the last few months is excellent.IMO.
Just mix and dump dude. But for first timers/beginners, dose a little and test Ca and Alk, then increase and adjust if necessary.
This method really works Keyaam. My growth over the last few months is excellent.IMO.
Just mix and dump dude. But for first timers/beginners, dose a little and test Ca and Alk, then increase and adjust if necessary.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Tobes
Retired Moderator
This method really works Keyaam. My growth over the last few months is excellent.IMO.
Just mix and dump dude. But for first timers/beginners, dose a little and test Ca and Alk, then increase and adjust if necessary.
I agree with Mek, this is actually the most accurate IF YOU KNOW YOUR SYSTEM'S DAILY DEMAND.
A kalkstirrer help but then the dosing is evaporation depended, where if you dose manually it is system demand depended.
Only downfall is you need someone to do it for you even if you leave for one day
Mekaeel
Moderator
Yip. Basically it is the same as any type of manual dosing unless you have a Carx or dosing pumps.Only downfall is you need someone to do it for you even if you leave for one day
There are some things that must be automated. Even in a Simple setup. You can keep them manual, but why?
But with everything else in live, the more electronics are involved, the more complex it can go wrong when it does.
- Lights. Can use simple electronic timers.
- ATU, most important automatic dosing machine to keep your water parameters stable. Just due to changes in the salinity etc.
But with everything else in live, the more electronics are involved, the more complex it can go wrong when it does.