Making your tank safer

[AndrévN]

Yip, that is what it sounds like. If you don't ground your tank you are going to complete the circuit with your hands in the tank. Or if you test it with a multimeter this will complete the circuit in the tank. So based on the above link, you can never get rid of stray voltage in an aquarium but you can manage it and make it safe by completing the circuit. Any qualified electricians want to comment on this???

@Quinton When you ground and bond your tank to the main earth point of your DB via a spike or probe as they call it, you are making sure that if any current should flow it will be flowing through the earth probe and not through you. And if a fault should occur, ie heater break or something similar the current will take the shortest route the earth probe route and not through you.

Earthing and bonding of installations is a vital necessity on any and all installations and it is a requirement on any Certificate of Compliance to ensure that installations be properly earthed and bonded to the main earth, and maximum resistances of the earth continuity path is specified and the value shall not exceed 0,2ohms ( example the earth resistance of the earth continuity path on plug circuits protected by a 20A circuit breaker shall not exceed a reading of 0.55ohms.) The way you test the value would be by connecting the insulation resistance meter to the main earth in your DB and test it to all metal screws and the earth pin on your walls socket outlet( if cables are used to extend the test leads the value of these leads needs to be subtracted from the reading to ensure a correct value is given. This is to make sure that the earth path has the correct resistance to allow the flow of current in case of a fault.

If this helps you understand the necessity of earthing and bonding, be the current flowing by virtue of capacitance, reactance, stray voltage via pump inductions it makes no difference. For obvious safety reasons earthing and bonding of equipment is vital for your families and own safety.

 

[Quintin]

@Quinton When you ground and bond your tank to the main earth point of your DB via a spike or probe as they call it, you are making sure that if any current should flow it will be flowing through the earth probe and not through you. And if a fault should occur, ie heater break or something similar the current will take the shortest route the earth probe route and not through you.

Earthing and bonding of installations is a vital necessity on any and all installations and it is a requirement on any Certificate of Compliance to ensure that installations be properly earthed and bonded to the main earth, and maximum resistances of the earth continuity path is specified and the value shall not exceed 0,2ohms ( example the earth resistance of the earth continuity path on plug circuits protected by a 20A circuit breaker shall not exceed a reading of 0.55ohms.) The way you test the value would be by connecting the insulation resistance meter to the main earth in your DB and test it to all metal screws and the earth pin on your walls socket outlet( if cables are used to extend the test leads the value of these leads needs to be subtracted from the reading to ensure a correct value is given. This is to make sure that the earth path has the correct resistance to allow the flow of current in case of a fault.

If this helps you understand the necessity of earthing and bonding, be the current flowing by virtue of capacitance, reactance, stray voltage via pump inductions it makes no difference. For obvious safety reasons earthing and bonding of equipment is vital for your families and own safety.

Kinda obvious MAX.
However as most tanks if not all are not regarded as a fixture to the home (unless it is built into your house and will get sold along with the house at a future stage) it does not require an electrical compliance certificate.

But the question asked was:
"So based on the above link, you can never get rid of stray voltage in an aquarium" and if that is the case, I take it we all have stray voltage in our swimming pools as well?

Is that correct?

 

[RiaanP]

stray voltage of 2 or 3 volt is nothing. That is of no concern.

Problem comes in when your heater decides to push 132V into the sump. That was not nice....

 

[rakabos]

My 60V (with no heaters) is hectic

 

[RiaanP]

Check your circulation pumps. Especially the older ones.

I dumped 2 perfectly working Boyu wavemakers a couple of weeks ago. the power cord, where it enters the pump housing, there the outer plastic of the cord cracks. The saltwater makes the plastic hard, and as you move the pump, it cracks the black outer plastic. allowing saltwater to reach the inner cores, hardening them as well. Next time you move the pump, or adjust the cord, then the inner core also cracks open. Zapping you.

That is why 12V internal pumps makes sense. Or Vortech pumps with the motor assembly outside the tank.

 

[AndrévN]

Problem with this is, the law aint specifying anything regarding multiplug adaptor. So if anything is fed from a socket outlet it aint covered under the SANS rules.

Kinda obvious MAX.
However as most tanks if not all are not regarded as a fixture to the home (unless it is built into your house and will get sold along with the house at a future stage) it does not require an electrical compliance certificate.

But the question asked was:
"So based on the above link, you can never get rid of stray voltage in an aquarium" and if that is the case, I take it we all have stray voltage in our swimming pools as well?

Is that correct?
@Quinton have a look at what i said previously, it is a pitty that stuff not fixed to the installation aint covered by the COC.

And if everything is so obvious why still bother about giving answers then. People wouldn't die if all this stuff was so obvious. And as a matter of fact, if you do have stray voltages in your swimming pool your installation was done incorrectly for starters as the pool pump is isolated completely from the water by means of a mechanical seal, and unlike a marine tank where everything is submerged and no earth present on the equipment a pool installation has provisions for a earth connection to the motor and shall only be fed from an earth leakage. And as for the transformer for the 12v light it shall also be fed from a suitable sabs approved transformer so no inductive or capacitive current can even come close to the water.

And to close of my comment, i have never done any tests nor calculations as to the given links. It actually makes sence as to what is he saying to a certain degree, but one has to go and sit and see the method behind his given statements. To say the least any motor, pump, wavemaker etc. gives off magnetic fields just like any generator rotating supplies electricity. ( and so does HT cables ) SO there must be some sort of electrical field being generated by the equipment we have in our tanks. As for the statement that we can never get rid of stray voltages in our tanks, i am no scientist or fundy, my healthy brain just tells me that prevention is better than cure. And by installing the necessary earth probe, all currents being generated, by means of capacitance or inductance or resistance or by virtue of magnetic fields will be grounded and will have no harmfull effect on any human nor animal in that context. Hence me saying what i did.

Why don't you give us your respectable input to clarify the answer to your question then? As i am clearly missing the point as to the reason for this entire discussion started. A fellow reefer and friend passed away and therefore all our inputs is required to prevent any future instances as far as humanly possible.

 

[butcherman]

That is why 12V internal pumps makes sense. Or Vortech pumps with the motor assembly outside the tank.

or Tunze controlable pumps like the 6105 stream or the 1073.05 return pump both work off 220v but all power in the tank is 12 -24v dc.

 

[Quintin]

My 60V (with no heaters) is hectic

Based on the link I posted, 60V is normal.....

 

[AndrévN]

That is why 12V internal pumps makes sense. Or Vortech pumps with the motor assembly outside the tank.

For this same reason i removed my seio pumps and installed resun wavemakers. To get rid of the 220V in the main display because we move them from time to time.

 

[Quintin]

Kinda obvious MAX.
However as most tanks if not all are not regarded as a fixture to the home (unless it is built into your house and will get sold along with the house at a future stage) it does not require an electrical compliance certificate.

But the question asked was:
"So based on the above link, you can never get rid of stray voltage in an aquarium" and if that is the case, I take it we all have stray voltage in our swimming pools as well?

Is that correct?
@Quinton have a look at what i said previously, it is a pitty that stuff not fixed to the installation aint covered by the COC.

And if everything is so obvious why still bother about giving answers then. People wouldn't die if all this stuff was so obvious. And as a matter of fact, if you do have stray voltages in your swimming pool your installation was done incorrectly for starters as the pool pump is isolated completely from the water by means of a mechanical seal, and unlike a marine tank where everything is submerged and no earth present on the equipment a pool installation has provisions for a earth connection to the motor and shall only be fed from an earth leakage. And as for the transformer for the 12v light it shall also be fed from a suitable sabs approved transformer so no inductive or capacitive current can even come close to the water.

And to close of my comment, i have never done any tests nor calculations as to the given links. It actually makes sence as to what is he saying to a certain degree, but one has to go and sit and see the method behind his given statements. To say the least any motor, pump, wavemaker etc. gives off magnetic fields just like any generator rotating supplies electricity. ( and so does HT cables ) SO there must be some sort of electrical field being generated by the equipment we have in our tanks. As for the statement that we can never get rid of stray voltages in our tanks, i am no scientist or fundy, my healthy brain just tells me that prevention is better than cure. And by installing the necessary earth probe, all currents being generated, by means of capacitance or inductance or resistance or by virtue of magnetic fields will be grounded and will have no harmfull effect on any human nor animal in that context. Hence me saying what i did.

Why don't you give us your respectable input to clarify the answer to your question then? As i am clearly missing the point as to the reason for this entire discussion started. A fellow reefer and friend passed away and therefore all our inputs is required to prevent any future instances as far as humanly possible.

Hi there MAX.
I'm not a sparkie, nor do I claim to know anything about electrical stuff when compared to a qualified and certified electrician but can comfortably wire a plug, DB Board, strip an electrical motor and stuff like that.

It is obvious that all electrical equipment should be earthed as this is how we purchase them from the shops but many people take short cuts and cut off the European / Asian / American plugs and replace them with local SA plugs without connecting the earth leakage or putting the live and neutral wiring in the correct position.

I think the question originally asked was "is stray voltage in tanks are a natural occurrence or if it is an indication that something is wrong with the equipment used".
Based on the links and threads I have read - I would say that it is a normal and natural effect that we need to deal with as part of the hobby with voltages ranging from 2-60V depending on the equipment used.

But can also be as @RiaanP pointed out, a result of faulty or failing equipment used.

Yes, you do need to earth your tank to prevent electrical shock should the heater break or the electrical cables break under water for some reason.
A power failure due to a trip switch activating is always better than a jolt when putting your hand in the tank.

So, I'm not arguing with you on anything you posted.

 

[Yuri]

Not if the leakage is a nutral to earth leak.

A earth leakage do trip if neutral and earth tuch

 

[Yuri]

Hi there MAX.
I'm not a sparkie, nor do I claim to know anything about electrical stuff when compared to a qualified and certified electrician but can comfortably wire a plug, DB Board, strip an electrical motor and stuff like that.

It is obvious that all electrical equipment should be earthed as this is how we purchase them from the shops but many people take short cuts and cut off the European / Asian / American plugs and replace them with local SA plugs without connecting the earth leakage or putting the live and neutral wiring in the correct position.

I think the question originally asked was "is stray voltage in tanks are a natural occurrence or if it is an indication that something is wrong with the equipment used".
Based on the links and threads I have read - I would say that it is a normal and natural effect that we need to deal with as part of the hobby with voltages ranging from 2-60V depending on the equipment used.

But can also be as @RiaanP pointed out, a result of faulty or failing equipment used.

Yes, you do need to earth your tank to prevent electrical shock should the heater break or the electrical cables break under water for some reason.
A power failure due to a trip switch activating is always better than a jolt when putting your hand in the tank.

So, I'm not arguing with you on anything you posted.

It will help to bring it down a bit water still has resistance
So if you tuch the earth and get close to the electrical leak you will get shocked
Where I work we have induction furnaces the electrical coils are made of coper water pipes to cool it down
We use special non conductive pipes that must be cut at least a meter long
To keep the voltages down
It is connected to a iso lock that checks the resistant of the water
High dts make water conduct more
Our big one holds 18 ton and can work at
1800V and pulls 1000A

 

[AndrévN]

A earth leakage do trip if neutral and earth tuch

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_leakage_circuit_breaker"]Earth leakage circuit breaker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] just to show there is a difference from the old installations to the newest installations

 

[Mc]

Ok so after reading this I have also decide to make my tank a bit more safe what I have gathered so far is.
I can put in a grounding probe.
Change my 220v pumps for 12v wavemakers.
Move the plugs where the tank can't drip/leak on them.
Is there anything else I can do?
What about the skimmer?
Is there anything to do to make the heater safer?

i have often seen guys doing water changes and at some point had a heater exposed either in the sump or in the mixing tub during the water change.

Does this cause the heater to crack?

 

[Keanan]

Ok so after reading this I have also decide to make my tank a bit more safe what I have gathered so far is.
I can put in a grounding probe.
Change my 220v pumps for 12v wavemakers.
Move the plugs where the tank can't drip/leak on them.
Is there anything else I can do?
What about the skimmer?
Is there anything to do to make the heater safer?



Does this cause the heater to crack?

Yes it can, depending on make, some claim that you can pull their heaters out of water wile still on and it wont crack. Dont know how true this is though.

 

[Quintin]

Yes it can, depending on make, some claim that you can pull their heaters out of water wile still on and it wont crack. Dont know how true this is though.

Simple explanation:
They are designed to work under water, so when you put a heater on outside the water it will heat up the glass in an effort to equalise the surrounding temperature.
When the glass is then dipped into cold water without cooling off it can cause the glass tubing to crack....

 

[Mc]

Thanks Guys.
I was just checking my plugs and found something shocking the extension cord running to my tank only has 2 wires no earth. I am going to buy a new one on saturday.

 

[lIghty]

Thats what i meant. Unplugged them all, and plugged each one in on its own to test....

If a pump is faulty, even though the switch is off it can still leak voltage into the water. A switch only "opens" the circuit and does not isolate the device from the mains.

So by just turning a switch off and testing doesn't mean its not that pump, you would have to totally unplug the pump.

I would also recommend using a multimeter to test (can even be a cheapie), put it onto volts, one test lead to the tank water and the other to an earth of a plug.

 

[lIghty]

Ok so by adding a probe we complete a circuit and cause electric flow in the tank 100% of the time. What the heck

As Max stated, it allows the stray current to flow to the earth, a piece of copper wire has much less Resistance than the human body, to it would rather go through the wire then you. yes it will also cause the stray voltage to now flow through the water, as it has an exit route, before it would just "sit" there (charged) waiting for a exit route.

Each pump that is in the water will create some stray voltage. But not a lot. Its due to the electrical field around the pump when running. And the more pumps, the higher the voltage.

also ballast units with their magnetic fields close to the water also induce voltage. Not too sure on electronic ballast units, but definitely older T8 and MH ballasts.

But the total voltage would still be very low. Barely noticeable.

So what is the reading you get @rakabos

Incorrect, electrical / magnetic field can only produce current / voltage through induction when you have another coil where the power is generated. Remember we live in a magnetic field.

My 60V (with no heaters) is hectic

YES! IMO anything over 50V is dangerous. But still not acceptable! IMO

Based on the link I posted, 60V is normal.....

See above.

Ok so after reading this I have also decide to make my tank a bit more safe what I have gathered so far is.
I can put in a grounding probe.
Change my 220v pumps for 12v wavemakers.
Move the plugs where the tank can't drip/leak on them.
Is there anything else I can do?
What about the skimmer?
Is there anything to do to make the heater safer?
Does this cause the heater to crack?

Make sure all your cables have a drip loop. Simply put, the cable must hang lower than the plug, so if water starts to run down the cable, it will run down to the loop and drip onto the floor and not run into the plug.

Buying a good quality heater would probably be better.

No, stray voltage will not cause a heater to crack.

Thanks Guys.
I was just checking my plugs and found something shocking the extension cord running to my tank only has 2 wires no earth. I am going to buy a new one on saturday.

is this a commercial available cable? or a DIY?

 

[Mc]

It is a old cable but commercial cable.