A lot have been have been mentioned and said about Closed Loop Systems. I have opted to make use of a CLS in my new tank. This thread will hopefully give people who consider waterflow via CLS an in depth understanding of what to and what not to do.
Tank Specs and features:
To bring you guy into picture, my tank is 1000x500x500 (this is very important to keep in mind, as this review is based on this size - and bigger sized tanks will be different). The rear wall is lower than the rest of the sides, with an overflow box at the back with two holes for outlet to sump. I had 5 holes drilled for the closed loop piping, that would then be sitting in the corners, and one in the middle right hand. See pic below of right hand side:
One of the biggest pro's to a closed loop is that you have minimal plumbing in the tank, and there is not heat from powerheads etc. Another major advantage is that, if done right, it is completely Nennie safe. Initially this was my aim with the CLS, as I wanted to keep nennies. So what we decided to do is drill bthe bottom with two holes; these would feed my two external pumps. The problam with this however, is that these two suction holes would obviously suck in anything coming too close to it. So, we then built a box on the bottom, and used eggcrate with and mesh to close it op over this box. This would now leave enough space to suck water in - without harming any livestock. See pictures below:
Plumbing and pipes:
There is basically only two options IMO that you can use for the CLS piping. Either white PVC "conduit" piping or blue high pressure piping and bends. Just a quick word on the two.
PVC "conduit" piping is manufactured for electrical applications, and NOT water flow. For this reason I strongly advice not to use them. Why? Well the two main issues is flow throught the bends. If you take a 90deg bend of white PVC "conduit" piping, and feel the inside, you will feel very sharp corners and not much bend in it. This REALLY affects flow alot. Also, I have found that these "conduit" pipes won't handle the pressure in the long run. Even when sticking it with PVC weld, I personally feel it will give at some stage (that is if you are willing to have about no flow untill such time)
High Pressure pipe and fittings on the other are, well, just that. Built for high pressure and flow, so you get better flow through it. Also, the actual pipe is thickerm and because it is darker and thicker, no light penetrates so minimal algae will grow inside it (this contrary to PVC Conduit pipe)
Okey, hopefully now you have decided to spend the money on high pressure piping and fittings, so let's go on...
Pipe size is also a very important factor. I personally feel that you are wasting your time using 20mm pipe, as this really is just a jet of water, and not suited for main flow in the tank. Another major factor to keep in mind, is to have your suction size into your pump a bigger size pipe than your outlet. I used 32mm pipes for my intake, and a 25mm pipe for the closed loop and outlets. The basic advatage of this is quite simply this - your pump work more effectively with less stress.
Your next "skip a heartbeat" expense is deciding whether or not to use unions and valves. IMO, it is a must. The simplre reason is having a valve on each outlet helps you controll the individual flow of that specific outlet. Some areas must have strong flow and others less, so this really helps a lot with that. Then using unions is another major advantage. I have not used unions on each outlet, as space did not allow for this. I also did not use unions on my pumps initially - a mistake that almost made me quit over the weekend... But all is sorted and I have put unions both on intake and outlet now, and this makes for easy removal of pumps.
Here is the basic fittings for the top plumbing on my CLS:
Now some of you wonder why the Mayonaise is in the picture? No, I am not a rep or promoting it... Basically, Mayo helps to clean that sticky glue that remains on the plastic after I have removed the price tags.
On bends:
One thing to keep in mind when doing any plumbing where pumps are involved, is that a 90degree bend really puts a lot of strain on your flow. Basically this is because water runs into a solid wall, and then turns 90degrees and has to pick up speed again. The best way to make a "smooth" 90degree is to use two 45's. What happens is water is basically running twice down a 45deg angle (making the 90deg) and thus this doesn't affect flow as much. The actual space it takes up makes it difficult some times, and I could also not use this concept everywhere. But make sure, where you can, that you do use this smoother 90degree bending, as it REALLY helps with water flow a lot. See picture below for the "smooth" 90deg design:
(also not the overflow box...)
Pumps:
As mentioned before, the major advantge of using external pumps for flow is that you do not have those butt ugly powerheads in the tank, that is really just an eye sore. Also, you do not have any heat introduced into the tank, and as I have done it, zero hazard for any nennies or livestock. I have used two 5800l/ph @ 4m head pumps on my closed loop system. I wanted to use two 3300litre pumps (but I am so glad I didn't (well get to that...)
These pumps were then seated below the intake (VERY IMPORTANT) so that it can easily suck with a bit of help from Father Gravity. Pictures shown are still without unions - a price a paid dearly this weekend when I started this baby up and ended with streams of water squirting out everywhere due to bad glue applications ... Also the return piping was not yet connected when I took these photos. I will update this thread with new photos though
...
*Note on glueing:
When you stick these pipes together, I prefer using PVC weld and not silicone. The main reason is that the silicone is under trameandous pressure, and it will not sustain this long term. When you want to stick a connector and pipe with PVC weld, make sure to sandpaper around the area of pipe that will go into the connector, and also the inside of the connector. Then you apply the weld all around it, stick it in and give in one 360deg turn to one side, and a 180deg turn to the other. You will now feel this pipe really tightening. You can also put some weld where the two pieces come together, to make sure there is no leak. Remember though, that once you stick it with PVC weld, it is inseperable, so think carefully and make sure you cut your pipes right.
Finished product:
The finished product now consists of five outlets, each on it's own ball valve. I have dropped the rear plumbing down the back to the bottom, and left the front flows higher, and I used a mixture of 45deg and 90deg bends for flow direction. I also allowed for the nozzles to be able to rotate so I could adjust the flow direction. To do this, I took the piece of pipe where the nozzle should be, and sandpapered it heavily. Then I used white plumbers tape and taped it on that spot. Now the nozzle fits tightly over the pipe, and can be moved into any direction without being blown off the pipe by the flow.
The final product looked like this:
Does it work?
Well, to be quite honest I was a bit disappointed by the amount of flow I got from the two pumps. I helped my dad move a 1.2m tank yesterday, and we used one of these pumps to pump the water from his tank into a container. We used a 32mm flexible hose, that was 30meters long and we pumped the water from a room in the house to the trailer (about 15-20meters far) and the pump delivered a full stream of water. But when I connected it to my tank, and two for that matter) I could really see the effect all those bends and T pieces had. The TYPE of flow however was absolutely amazing. I can adjust the nozzle in any direction and get the flow perfect. I am cycling my tank now, and have a piece of LR with long GHA, and this shows me what flow there is. It really is good flow type though.
Is it worth it compared to powerheads?
In my honest opinion, I do not think that a CLS like this is effective enough for the only flow in a SPS dominated tank. If you are planning a LPS or soft coral tank, then it would be great. Even for keeping an anemone and adjusting the right flow around it would work, but it really is not strong enought for SPS.
It also is not at all more cost effective. The two pumps cost me around R1300 each. The plumbing only cost me around R1700 in total. Compared to other flow methods you could spend R3000 on, this really is only for the person who is adament on keeping a fully "safe" system. The wattage of each pumps is also 90W per pump (which is quote low for these type of pumps) so that does not help on electricity usage. This compared to the 9 - 15W usage for powerheads...
If you would to use bigger pumps, then maybe it would work better, or even if you could somehow replace the 90deg bends with the "smoother" 90deg design that would also help.
And and all, it was a lot of money spent, that, seeing that I will not be keeping nennies in this tank might have been waste. I hope however that this thread helped a lot of you guys in planning and building yor future CLS systems.
Thank you
Jaco
Tank Specs and features:
To bring you guy into picture, my tank is 1000x500x500 (this is very important to keep in mind, as this review is based on this size - and bigger sized tanks will be different). The rear wall is lower than the rest of the sides, with an overflow box at the back with two holes for outlet to sump. I had 5 holes drilled for the closed loop piping, that would then be sitting in the corners, and one in the middle right hand. See pic below of right hand side:
One of the biggest pro's to a closed loop is that you have minimal plumbing in the tank, and there is not heat from powerheads etc. Another major advantage is that, if done right, it is completely Nennie safe. Initially this was my aim with the CLS, as I wanted to keep nennies. So what we decided to do is drill bthe bottom with two holes; these would feed my two external pumps. The problam with this however, is that these two suction holes would obviously suck in anything coming too close to it. So, we then built a box on the bottom, and used eggcrate with and mesh to close it op over this box. This would now leave enough space to suck water in - without harming any livestock. See pictures below:
Plumbing and pipes:
There is basically only two options IMO that you can use for the CLS piping. Either white PVC "conduit" piping or blue high pressure piping and bends. Just a quick word on the two.
PVC "conduit" piping is manufactured for electrical applications, and NOT water flow. For this reason I strongly advice not to use them. Why? Well the two main issues is flow throught the bends. If you take a 90deg bend of white PVC "conduit" piping, and feel the inside, you will feel very sharp corners and not much bend in it. This REALLY affects flow alot. Also, I have found that these "conduit" pipes won't handle the pressure in the long run. Even when sticking it with PVC weld, I personally feel it will give at some stage (that is if you are willing to have about no flow untill such time)
High Pressure pipe and fittings on the other are, well, just that. Built for high pressure and flow, so you get better flow through it. Also, the actual pipe is thickerm and because it is darker and thicker, no light penetrates so minimal algae will grow inside it (this contrary to PVC Conduit pipe)
Okey, hopefully now you have decided to spend the money on high pressure piping and fittings, so let's go on...
Pipe size is also a very important factor. I personally feel that you are wasting your time using 20mm pipe, as this really is just a jet of water, and not suited for main flow in the tank. Another major factor to keep in mind, is to have your suction size into your pump a bigger size pipe than your outlet. I used 32mm pipes for my intake, and a 25mm pipe for the closed loop and outlets. The basic advatage of this is quite simply this - your pump work more effectively with less stress.
Your next "skip a heartbeat" expense is deciding whether or not to use unions and valves. IMO, it is a must. The simplre reason is having a valve on each outlet helps you controll the individual flow of that specific outlet. Some areas must have strong flow and others less, so this really helps a lot with that. Then using unions is another major advantage. I have not used unions on each outlet, as space did not allow for this. I also did not use unions on my pumps initially - a mistake that almost made me quit over the weekend... But all is sorted and I have put unions both on intake and outlet now, and this makes for easy removal of pumps.
Here is the basic fittings for the top plumbing on my CLS:
Now some of you wonder why the Mayonaise is in the picture? No, I am not a rep or promoting it... Basically, Mayo helps to clean that sticky glue that remains on the plastic after I have removed the price tags.
On bends:
One thing to keep in mind when doing any plumbing where pumps are involved, is that a 90degree bend really puts a lot of strain on your flow. Basically this is because water runs into a solid wall, and then turns 90degrees and has to pick up speed again. The best way to make a "smooth" 90degree is to use two 45's. What happens is water is basically running twice down a 45deg angle (making the 90deg) and thus this doesn't affect flow as much. The actual space it takes up makes it difficult some times, and I could also not use this concept everywhere. But make sure, where you can, that you do use this smoother 90degree bending, as it REALLY helps with water flow a lot. See picture below for the "smooth" 90deg design:
(also not the overflow box...)
Pumps:
As mentioned before, the major advantge of using external pumps for flow is that you do not have those butt ugly powerheads in the tank, that is really just an eye sore. Also, you do not have any heat introduced into the tank, and as I have done it, zero hazard for any nennies or livestock. I have used two 5800l/ph @ 4m head pumps on my closed loop system. I wanted to use two 3300litre pumps (but I am so glad I didn't (well get to that...)
These pumps were then seated below the intake (VERY IMPORTANT) so that it can easily suck with a bit of help from Father Gravity. Pictures shown are still without unions - a price a paid dearly this weekend when I started this baby up and ended with streams of water squirting out everywhere due to bad glue applications ... Also the return piping was not yet connected when I took these photos. I will update this thread with new photos though
...*Note on glueing:
When you stick these pipes together, I prefer using PVC weld and not silicone. The main reason is that the silicone is under trameandous pressure, and it will not sustain this long term. When you want to stick a connector and pipe with PVC weld, make sure to sandpaper around the area of pipe that will go into the connector, and also the inside of the connector. Then you apply the weld all around it, stick it in and give in one 360deg turn to one side, and a 180deg turn to the other. You will now feel this pipe really tightening. You can also put some weld where the two pieces come together, to make sure there is no leak. Remember though, that once you stick it with PVC weld, it is inseperable, so think carefully and make sure you cut your pipes right.
Finished product:
The finished product now consists of five outlets, each on it's own ball valve. I have dropped the rear plumbing down the back to the bottom, and left the front flows higher, and I used a mixture of 45deg and 90deg bends for flow direction. I also allowed for the nozzles to be able to rotate so I could adjust the flow direction. To do this, I took the piece of pipe where the nozzle should be, and sandpapered it heavily. Then I used white plumbers tape and taped it on that spot. Now the nozzle fits tightly over the pipe, and can be moved into any direction without being blown off the pipe by the flow.
The final product looked like this:
Does it work?
Well, to be quite honest I was a bit disappointed by the amount of flow I got from the two pumps. I helped my dad move a 1.2m tank yesterday, and we used one of these pumps to pump the water from his tank into a container. We used a 32mm flexible hose, that was 30meters long and we pumped the water from a room in the house to the trailer (about 15-20meters far) and the pump delivered a full stream of water. But when I connected it to my tank, and two for that matter) I could really see the effect all those bends and T pieces had. The TYPE of flow however was absolutely amazing. I can adjust the nozzle in any direction and get the flow perfect. I am cycling my tank now, and have a piece of LR with long GHA, and this shows me what flow there is. It really is good flow type though.
Is it worth it compared to powerheads?
In my honest opinion, I do not think that a CLS like this is effective enough for the only flow in a SPS dominated tank. If you are planning a LPS or soft coral tank, then it would be great. Even for keeping an anemone and adjusting the right flow around it would work, but it really is not strong enought for SPS.
It also is not at all more cost effective. The two pumps cost me around R1300 each. The plumbing only cost me around R1700 in total. Compared to other flow methods you could spend R3000 on, this really is only for the person who is adament on keeping a fully "safe" system. The wattage of each pumps is also 90W per pump (which is quote low for these type of pumps) so that does not help on electricity usage. This compared to the 9 - 15W usage for powerheads...
If you would to use bigger pumps, then maybe it would work better, or even if you could somehow replace the 90deg bends with the "smoother" 90deg design that would also help.
And and all, it was a lot of money spent, that, seeing that I will not be keeping nennies in this tank might have been waste. I hope however that this thread helped a lot of you guys in planning and building yor future CLS systems.
Thank you
Jaco
looking awesome man.very usefull info to...thank you
