You guys are really making me sick!

[belindamotion]

Ok...also found this...won't let me copy and paste... Ok...that's me and Stray Voltage for the day...
Stray Voltages

[LuckyFish]

Originally Posted by belindamotion

Ok...also found this...won't let me copy and paste... Ok...that's me and Stray Voltage for the day...
Stray Voltages

Very good read. Thanks for that. I'm sure you didn't understand half. I understood maybe 70%. The most interesting parts I didn't understand as most of the words being used sounds rather spanish to me.

[belindamotion]

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

Very good read. Thanks for that. I'm sure you didn't understand half. I understood maybe 70%. The most interesting parts I didn't understand as most of the words being used sounds rather spanish to me.

Actually...less than half....I've been reading Articles after Articles going with "key word's" from the MASA Thread...hoping to be able to give my 2c contribution....now my brain is exhausted...

[LuckyFish]

Originally Posted by belindamotion

Actually...less than half....I've been reading Articles after Articles going with "key word's" from the MASA Thread...hoping to be able to give my 2c contribution....now my brain is exhausted...

Take a break my dear. Tomorrow is another day.

I found 50% of your posts really interesting and helpful. So keep it up.
BTW, do you have shares in GOOGLE?

[dendrosa]

Originally Posted by belindamotion

Ok...also found this...won't let me copy and paste... Ok...that's me and Stray Voltage for the day...
Stray Voltages

great article. Thanks Belinda.

[belindamotion]

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

BTW, do you have shares in GOOGLE?

.. actually I don't "GOOGLE"...I "BING"....but somehow GOOGLE MASTER sounds better than BING QUEEN...

[jaquesdp08]

So what is the fix for stray voltage in a tank ?

im getting nipped by electricity when im barefoot and working in the tank

[LuckyFish]

Originally Posted by belindamotion

.. actually I don't "GOOGLE"...I "BING"....but somehow GOOGLE MASTER sounds better than BING QUEEN...

You are the MASA Pink Queen and our google master, even though you bing it.

[LuckyFish]

Originally Posted by jaquesdp08

So what is the fix for stray voltage in a tank ?

im getting nipped by electricity when im barefoot and working in the tank

@jaquesdp08

You really have to check the stray voltage like in the picture below. Please post the results here.





Right now, that is the solution, but I think we will work something out something slightly different.

[jaquesdp08]

thanks

[Moolis]

Great thread - THANK YOU I will direct my customers to this

[seank]

Interesting thread, thanks to all the contributors. Would love to hear Max's input

[AndrévN]

Originally Posted by seank

Interesting thread, thanks to all the contributors. Would love to hear Max's input

@seank will reply busy reading through all this was seriously busy sorry man.

[AndrévN]

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

Safe solution for checking and for working in the water This is what I mentioned in the beginning. That should allow you to be safe when working in the water, only when Switch 2 is on! Switch 1 on and switch 2 off, will allow you to measure your stray voltage any time.

Hey buddy you point to the Earth point on the plug as the earth leakage in your drawing, that is merely the earthing point of the plug. And that point "should be" connected to your main earth in the DB to enable the earth leakage to pick up a fault from neutral to earth and enable the relay to trip. SO itll be deemed worthless having everything connected and not the main earth to say the least. But your way of explaining the testing procedure is correct.

[AndrévN]

Originally Posted by Nemos Janitor

The electricity then passed through his body electrocuting him. The earth leakage would not have tripped because he was insulated to earth. The earth leakage would only have tripped when he made contact with ground/earth. By that time it was to late. But then it could also have been a faulty earth leakage breaker.

You need to be connected or touching live to earth to get shocked and or touching between live and neutral and in both cases this is the only way current can flow. If there is a faulty piece of equipment and either the earth leakage is faulty or the earth wire to the plug is not connected, the unit will not trip. ( indirectly neutral and earth is exactly the same point as the transformer feeding our domestic supplies neutral points gets connected directly to earth. )

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

I just did the experiment with 230V AC. L and N connected to the probes.

That is absolutely seriously dangerous your doing eish. And that just tells me that there is no tripping protection on your system brother.

Originally Posted by RiaanP

If Luckyfish earth leakage did not trip, then the ground probe to earth leakage is not right. As said earlier, that pump pushed 200V for a considerate time span. Or what is it that I'm missing?

No Riaan your tank is not connected to earth my friend, so in short - hence the requirement to have some sort of grounding done, if not you become the conductor between live and earth instead of the earthing probe. Id rather have the stray voltages grounded directly in my tank and live to tell the tale, than be superman and keep the grounding probe disconnected. Just my 2c.

Originally Posted by RiaanP

Stupid question, asked, but no definite answer given. A faulty pump,how much milliAmp does it push out? Should the earth leakage not trip. Nemo Janitor mentioned 10-100mA for 40 to 100 milliseconds.

No not how it works, it depends on the size of the equipment. So much kilowatts or watts so much amps. And in short the maximum allowed tripping value for an earth leakage on a domestic installation is 30mA period. Anything less is acceptable.

Please be advised guys, an earth leakage is a device so designed to pick up any inbalance on current drawn to the earth. A circuit breaker on the other hand is the overload protection of the circuit being fed. So if a plug is being fed by a 20Amp circuit breaker via a 30mA Earth leakage it means the circuit should trip the earth leakage when a fault current to earth smaller than 30 mA is detected and that any current drawn more than 20Amp should trip the circuit breaker.

Originally Posted by lIghty

Just throwing a question out there? what happens if someone like your child touches the tank or water etc while you not around?

My point exactly hence me saying ill rather live with the stray voltages grounded directly than sit here to tell the tale.

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

I rather have electrolysis for a few hours, instead of just a grounded tank, where I will never know what is going on until the main trips.

As i said above ill rather have the voltage leaks directly flowing to earth through a probe than being used as the conductor and not live to tell the tale.

[AndrévN]

Originally Posted by lIghty

As stated by NJ and myself, get the E.L. tested, Marcel its not worth taking any chances

Its a necessity

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

We don't really know what is going on in case of stray voltage. To many things are playing together, which we can not determine. I had a cube running with 70 Volts stray voltage. I grounded the tank and that was it. Nothing negative visible. No dropping PH, corals and fish were fine. Here I have only 20 Volts and when grounded the PH drops by 0.1. The fish stops eating, turns shy, swims strange, turns blind and finally dies.

Maybe it is more than what your thinking, one voltage leak greater than the other and no ill effect. Maybe it is more than just electrolysis

Originally Posted by lIghty

I would recommend grounding your tank, this is why they invented earth leakage, and it save lives!

Most certainly does, the only way of preventing you or your family from becoming the actual conductor to earth

Originally Posted by Nemos Janitor

Also when it did trip. Was it because of earth leakage or drawing to much current?

The earth leakage trips when a fault current greater than its tripping value is detected. In a domestic installation not greater than 30mA but in most cases between 20 and 25mA.

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

I just double checked the broken pump. It has got a 3 prong plug. So why didn't it trip the earth leakage?

ANything that has a fault, but not a fault current to earth cannot have the earth leakage trip. So it has to be a fault current to earth. If you insulate that equipment from potensial earth it will never trip the earth leakage. It was designed to detect falt currents to earth.

[AndrévN]

Originally Posted by Nemos Janitor

A. Insulated equipment is designed to protect personnel working on electrical lines. If a personnel works on a "live" live or "live" neutral line nothing will happen if he touches it in error. If he is not insulated current goes to earth through the personnel to earth. "fried chips". However insulated or not touching live and neutral will result in electrocution.

A slight correction here on any three phase system even being insulated touching between any of the 3 live live to live will electricute you. when touching any live wire to neutral even being insulated from earth you will be electricuted. BUT when you are insulated and only touch one of the live wires you will not be electricuted because current can only flow from live to live live to neutral or live to earth.

[Nemos Janitor]

Originally Posted by AndrévN

The earth leakage trips when a fault current greater than its tripping value is detected. In a domestic installation not greater than 30mA but in most cases between 20 and 25mA.

Correct. What i was trying to establish in that sentance was if it was the earth leakage that was tripping or if the current breaker was tripping.

A 20A current breaker will trip if 30A is drawn.

[AndrévN]

Originally Posted by LuckyFish

I guess, without a special gadget one cannot test the E.L. Am I right?

Yes it is called an earth leakage tested with settings from 0 - 30mA in increments of 5mA

Originally Posted by lIghty

Thoughts comments?

I did sorry was really busy

Originally Posted by lIghty

A diode, sure? I know it will have a running capacitor, but never heard of a diode before. Unfortunately a diode could help in this case.

Originally Posted by lIghty

Swimming pool pumps has a buildt in diode, current can only go one direction and not reverse, wouldn't this be a solution.

No pool pumps has a starting or running capacitor and or both, but they don't have diodes in the circuits.

[JDV]

Hi all


Any suggestions what I can use as a ground probe and where I can get it in CPT?