Kanga:
>>The coral controversy mentioned is a whole other debate, whether it happened or did not was not the point I tried to make, Incidents or the possibilty of something like this happening (again I am not saying it did or didnt) does certainly leave a negative view on our hobby.<<
Visit grand conspiracy.com. You'll find equally credible and useful information. I do think you meant it intentionally, but I find your response civil and without question worth discussing. And, for what it's worth, the negative views of our hobby stem from the fact that over 20 million fish and unknown millions of corals and invertebrates are taken from stressed resource countries with little oversight to stock luxury items for reefkeepers who kill them by the millions, primarily Americans. The US unquestionably is the major import problem and Indonesia and the Philippines unquestionably the export problems. The false conspiracy to which you refer has background you can never understand and had no impact on the hobby except for the intentional drama created by gossip-mongering aquarists.
>>Calvin, you are eighteen years old. Your response is what I would expect. I was reefkeeping before you were born and conducting science when you were in grade school. You are still naive, no offense to you. No offense taken by me, no need to apologize. You are who you are and go let your blood boil<<
thalion:
>>What is really involved in doing this, brake coral attach to rock, put back in sea, harvest in the same manner as they did a year later.<<
Restoration ecology is in its infancy and there are few if any good long-term monitoring of its effectiveness. There are also no established guidelines for growing corals in one environment and placing them into another. This is even true for the same species collected in one location and simply taken in situ to another location where the genetic diversity may be different and this is without the significant issues involving biosecurity. Furthermore, restoration ecology suffers from the fact that corals grown in nurseries (ex situ or in situ) are often used without mitigation of existing stressors and factors that caused the corals' demise in the first place and currently ship groundings or mechanical disturbances seem to be the most effective use for such methods. A workshop is planned to discuss the best practice methods, and I and others are currently involved in pilot restoration studies through NOAA and other funding organizations.
kanga
>>I still don't understand though on that point how breeding will help ( I think it will ) and propagation wont? Surely the same people who's income would be compromised by propagation, would also be affected by breeding? Again please, please correct me if I am wrong, if I knew all the answers I wouldn't be asking the questions?<<
Because larvae are removed for rearing outside an area where pathogens and parasites can gain access and able to be removed or isolated easily if they occur. The numbers of larvae (in the thousands or millions) means less in the scheme of things than the loss of a handful of branch clippings. Also, breeding techniques are in their infancy but preserve genetic diversity, broodstock and result in a much higher number of propagules with less impact than propagation. Propagation is still fine, but in theory and unfortunately not in practice, which leads me to the following...
kanga and calvin
>>I apologise for bringing this up again, however this statement really bothers me.
I quote from " Aquarium corals, selection, husbandry and natural selection" By Eric Borneman Page 404
" in North America, numerous commercial and amateur or hobbyist propagators are taking small cuttings or fragments of soft and stony corals and growing new specimens or colonies that are in great demand by aquarists. They are typically disease-free and are provided to the aquarist without the stress of collection,long-distance shipping and traumatic periods spent in holding facilities.They do not have to endure the many shocks of long flights and frequent drastic enviromental changes. And most importantly, with captive grown livestock there is no negative impact on natural coral reefs."
I would think that looking for a solution to the issue of passing on pests, would have less impact on reefs.
Please if anything I said was taken out of context please feel free to correct me.<<
Yes, much of the material in my book is now outdated. As it should be. Both science and aquaristics move forward. When I first met Charlie Veron, I reveled in his company and praised his book Corals of Australia and the Indo-Pacific. He laughed and said, "well, don't love it too much - probably half of the species in it are wrong."
And, in response to my "contradiction" I have been presenting at meetings (scientific and aquarium) the issues with pests and pathogen transmission through fragmentation for the past two years and wrote about it in 2007 in the following passage
"In recent years, the practice of trading captive propagated fragments of corals has resulted in the concurrent transfer of pest species. Many years ago, the transfer of pest species was notable with the spread of the nuisance anemones, Aiptasia spp. To date there is still no easy method of completely eradicating these rapidly proliferating anemones once they are established in an aquarium, and they are now found as unwanted hitchhikers from populations established in wholesale, retail and hobbyist aquariums around the world. A range of biological, manual and chemical means are used alone or in combination in attempts to control these anemones, usually unsuccessfully. Several years later, similar aquarium outbreaks began occurring with another pest anemone tentatively identified as Anemonia majano. Other nuisance species, including algae, flatworms (e.g., Convolutriloba sp.), cyanobacteria and hydroids, also become problematic for many aquarists by their rapid spread, blooms and difficulty controlling proliferation, to the detriment of other desirable species in the aquarium. Many of these common species, however, are normally present in the aquarium, and transfer may be less important in transient or chronic population increases.
There have been occurrences of coral predators and parasites reported as “hitchhikers” on wild-collected corals and live rock for as long as the trade for the reef aquarium hobby has existed. Recent years, however, have seen the introduction of several pest species that are difficult to eradicate and are easily and unintentionally transferred between aquariums through the increasingly common practice of selling or trading captive-grown coral fragments and colonies. It is not known exactly when the initial introduction of these pests occurred, or if there are regular inputs into the trade through continued collections. One of the more common events that has become a mainstay of many local aquarium clubs are “frag swaps,” where club members, often numbering in the hundreds, get together and exchange corals and other livestock. All too often, little to no effort is made to carefully inspect or quarantine livestock acquired at these events. In addition, many retail stores have begun buying fragments of captive-raised corals to resell, and hobbyists have begun selling fragments of corals on eBay and other websites. With so many opportunities for parasites, predators and pathogens to be spread rapidly, it is little wonder that these pest species have become so widespread, and some are even spread internationally.
The aquarium epizootic of parasitic copepods (Tegastes acroporanus) specific to Acropora spp. has become a global concern. While parasitized corals can exist without obvious detriment for many years, high populations of these copepods on some corals causes a bleaching response and can result in mortality (Borneman 2004). Effective treatments are available for this pest, although none are commercially available (Dorton 2004, Borneman 2004). Other coral pests, however, are corallivorous, difficult to eradicate and almost invariably result in total colony mortality."
I hope that answers all of your questions. I have a forum at SAReefkeeping.com if anyone would like to continue this discussion with me.