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Anything DIY Related Build your own topup unit, drip kalkwasser with a coke bottle, build hoods and customize lighting, DIY is a reefers dream, well for some of us.

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Old 16-04-2012   #1
Hammerhead
 
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Default DIY Metal Stand
Hi Guys

My tank is currently on hold as the stand I built is a bit wobbly even afer putting on some support angles (bolted on). The stand was galavanised and was made with 38mm square tubing.

The tank is 1300 X 650 X 600 (H) and the sump is 1200 X 550 X 450 (H) after failing this badly I wish to get some help from you guys on a stand design. Unfortunaetly I havent learnt the use of schethup so if someone could sketchup a design it will be very much appreciated. I may have to cut the sump by 50mm as it will be a tight fit using 50mm tubing.

The stand has to be around 800mm high to be able to remove my skimmer and be able to fit the sump underneath it. Im assuming the material used was inadequate and will now opt to go for larger tubing maybe 50 X 50 with a thicker wall thickness.

This is the closest I could get to a sketchup.



Any thoughts please
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Old 16-04-2012   #2
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Hi Hammerhead It is important to not only consider the size of the tubing, but also the thickness. 50mm should be adequate for a tank and sump weighing more than a ton. It should be very rigid, as any flex will stress the glass in a way the tank wasn't designed for, and causing cracks.

I'll draw up a stand design and post it just now.

Cheers
Adam

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Last edited by AdamVR; 16-04-2012 at 14:45 PM. Reason: wrong sizing
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Old 16-04-2012   #3
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Thanks a million what thickness tubing do you suggest. I called the guy I bought the material from last time and he can give me 3mm thickness max only
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Old 16-04-2012   #4
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Here is the stand:



The big frame is made of 50mm square tubing, 2mm wall thickness or thicker.

The braces are of 38mm square tubing, 1.5mm or thicker.

This setup should give you a safety factor of just under 10, with the occasional bump to the side of the stand of no greater than 600N, or approx 55kg. Vibration analysis wasn't done.

Make sure that the stand is built absolutely square, so no buckling takes place.

Coating wise you'll find a lot of threads on the subject - just search around a bit.

I'll put your tank and sump on there just now.

Cheers
Adam

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Old 16-04-2012   #5
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Wow that was quick...thanks a million. Is the no need for a cetre cross support then?

Really need to learn sketchup now.

Shot
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Old 16-04-2012   #6
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It figures why it wasnt stable lucky i didnt fill her up...eish

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Old 16-04-2012   #7
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Here is the complete pic.



In theory you could put as many braces as you want over the top to support the tank, depends on how the tank is designed. Adding bracing will not weaken the stand in any way, so go crazy on bracing. Check out the way the stand of Lanzo's angel tank was built (@DorryPets).

I'll try to add the sketchup file as well, then you can play around with the design.

Just a word of caution, check the height of the sump under the DT , it might be difficult/impossible to get a skimmer and other equipment in there with a too small gap.

Cheers
Adam

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Old 16-04-2012   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
It figures why it wasnt stable lucky i didnt fill her up...eish

In theory this would have worked, for a while, but as soon as you bump into it, it would probably have collapsed .

Also, putting wood under a tank might lead to long term problems, because as the wood gets wet, it swells up, causing point stresses on the tank, usually causing a bottom to crack, and all the water draining out (Yup, I've done it before).

Rather go for double thickness glass and polystyrene, as you have indeed done.

Cheers
Adam

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Old 16-04-2012   #9
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Thanks a Million.. really apprecaite it. Lesson learnt always ask on MASA befor you do anything.

Will check if i can remove skimmer on current stand if need be i'll raise the stand as reqiured

Thanks a million again
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Old 16-04-2012   #10
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just did a rough sum of material and found il get almost a 4.8m offcut as il need 3 lengths of 6m. Could I not just use these for the supports? Im sure it will be stronger too.
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Old 16-04-2012   #11
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Sure, as noted before, making something bigger will just increase the strength of the stand. Go for it.

Cheers
Adam

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Old 16-04-2012   #12
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the stand design got 2 flaws (or room for improvement).
Sorry AdamVR.
First the sump got no support. Is it laying on the floor? It either needs support brackets or it need a subframe of its own. So more steel.

Secondly, do not use on the short ends those support triangles at the bottom. Easier to slide the sump in from the side. Plus then you got at least support for the sump at both ends. Just need one or two cross members in the middle to support the sump. Another plus on that is the sump would be 100mm longer compared to when the sump is inside the triangular support.
Else, is you got the end triangles on the short sides, you would still need another cross member to support the sump.

BTW, a 1m in length 50mm square tubing 3mm wall thickness standing 100% upright with no movement stress can carry up to 9400 plus KG. Ask @Manic to do the correct calculation.

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Last edited by RiaanP; 16-04-2012 at 20:26 PM.
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Old 16-04-2012   #13
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hey Riaan - so in short, there isnt a need for that many support angles???

Also, by having that many support angles at the base of the tank, pulling your sump out is going to be a mission and a half, apart from the maintenance aspect...
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Old 16-04-2012   #14
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I would really do it a bit different. No offense Adam ...
Reason I say it: If you put bracing in front, you are going to battle to work in the sump as well as batte to get any skimmers etc in and out.

Look at this drawings, there is more than enough bracing to support your tank- the weight of a tank sits on the outer edges. Also, with the bracing at the bottom section, you can still add a shutter board (22mm) on top of the bottom bracing to support your sump, keeping it off the floor:




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Old 16-04-2012   #15
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Quote:
BTW, a 1m in length 50mm square tubing 3mm wall thickness standing 100% upright with no movement stress can carry up to 9400 plus KG.
Agreed, sorry Riaan, only saw your post now as I saw this and started drawing the stand and only after I uploaded it, did I see your post, but you are right with all the cons

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Old 16-04-2012   #16
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No worries guys, any criticism always welcome, otherwise how do we learn.

The stand was a rough design from a mechanical engineers' perspective. That design has a nice big safety factor, taking into account a moderate side impact. Of course the sump needs some support as well, as @RiaanP said.

Basically, if you use nice thick tubing, properly braced, properly constructed, your tank won't be damaged anytime soon.

Read through some threads, look at some pics, go look at some tanks and design a stand that you think will work for you. Get everybody's input on it, and you are bound to have a stunning stand that will give you one less thing to worry about in a new setup.

Just my 2C

Cheers
Adam

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Doesn't it all boil down to keeping poop as a pet?
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nothing good happens fast on an ice rink or in a fish tank

Last edited by AdamVR; 16-04-2012 at 22:20 PM.
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Old 19-04-2012   #17
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Thanks guys.

Il use a combination of the two as I prefer having a front centre support on both sides rather than on one side, (The middle section will have the dsb so very little maitenance in there i hope) il put on the corner bracings on the short side but only at the top to allow the sump to slide in from the side.

Thanks for all the input and effort put into sketching up the stand really appreciate it.
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Old 23-04-2012   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiaanP View Post
BTW, a 1m in length 50mm square tubing 3mm wall thickness standing 100% upright with no movement stress can carry up to 9400 plus KG. Ask @Manic to do the correct calculation.
Hi Guys, I don't wanna hijack someone else's thread, but I am very interested in the info here because we should begin building my frame in the next two weeks and I want to know if their are any design flaws? I will need to hold approximately 1000 liters of water and I have drawn it up with the scale of 50mm and 3mm sidewall... can I go smaller? Here is a pic...
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Old 23-04-2012   #19
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How high is your tank. Actually where is your tank in your house. In the lounge, where you want ot sit down and enjoy the view? Or in a general area where you most likely will stand around checking things out. Reason, on a tank that is 600mm high on that stand, unless you 1.9m or taller you need to get steps out. Also sitting next to and lower than the tank, you will look up into the lights. Not nice.

Still need that triangular supports in the corners, else it will flex. Even if it is just the back side.

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Old 23-04-2012   #20
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Here is a 1.5 by .75 stand I made a while back.

Note the triangular plates in the corners, except the front. Easier to get the sump in.
And the sump "hang" under the frame. Basically the legs / nuts are minimum 22mm in each corner. The sump rest on 20mm square tubing welded to the underside of the bottom frame. That gave me a 50mm extra space for the height on the skimmer. That tank is 750mm high. and working from the top down the rim max is set at 1600mm.




And powder coated. Next time, I will go for galvanize. And the grid is just nice to have, easier to hang anything on that in the future, like sump light, scrubber...



And sump in place


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Last edited by RiaanP; 23-04-2012 at 18:36 PM.
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